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LAGONDAV82016
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david



Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 94
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First check (when cold) the coolant level.

Then check is whether the temp reading is actual or false.

Using an infra red temp sensor, see if the temperature of the engine is anywhere near 104 degrees.

Also, if the engine is genuinely that hot, one would expect the idle quality to reduce and maybe some steam coming from the filler cap.

if it is genuinely hot, then the thermostat must be the first thing to check and most likely change it anyway - use a 72 degree one, I think.

Both fans should work at either high or low speed, the respective speeds switched by two relays fitted to the left front of the car , behind the air filter.

The two coolant temperature switches for the fans are located at the base of the right side of the radiator.

Hope this helps to start with.

David
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Francis



Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 571
Location: Marly Switzerland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David,

Thanks,

You have it right.

This afternoon with Arthur we did check the heat with an infra red gun. The reading of the dash gauge is accurate within a few degrees.

Just now I opened the rad cap and transferred all the water that was in the over flow reservoir, and it was full. On top of that I added about 3 liters of water so I guess I was running with 5 or 6 liter short.

The thermostats are not working. This has been so for years. The fans have been wired to run full speed when contact is turned on.

Tomorrow morning I will check the oil level and take Alvira out for a spin to see if this was the problem. I suspect so as the car ran ok last week when I took it up a mountain pass. Drove one hour up the pass and down for an hour.

Up at the top, the water temperature came to about 101 but when I came down it stabilized at around 85.

I might have lost some water towards the top and did not check it when I came home.

I will keep you posted tomorrow.

Thanks for the help.

Francis
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JohanB



Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the wiring towards the fans as well. One fan cutting out could mean that the wiring is not optimal as they should be wired in parallel. Having them running full time at max power can put some strain on connections resulting in poor conduction and in the end less voltage at the fans making them run slower.
I'd replace the thermostat anyway just to be sure it isn't sticking.
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Francis



Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 571
Location: Marly Switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem solved!

I added 1 liter of oil, went out on the road for 45 minutes, took a steep, long mountain road and the temperature never climed above 85! Mind you the outside temperature was 10 degrees below yesterday's late afternoon temps.

Thanks all of you and see you Thursday with Alvira in FrenchFriesland!

Francis
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Vrije



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When overflow tank is full this means that water is not sucked back when cooling down. Replace the hose between the overflowtank and filler neck on engine.(seen it done it will do it again)

Personally I'd switch pressure cap to overflow and closed cap to engine filler neck that way return when cooling down is helped by pressure instead of vacuum operated
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Francis



Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 571
Location: Marly Switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hummm.....

The plastic cap on the overflow container is not original and is not sealed to the hose coming thru it. There is a grummet but not perfectly fitted to the hope drilled, artisanal,therefore I probably did that a few years ago when the original cap got lost or broken.

I did use marine silicone to give it a seal inside and outside the cap, so I guess a pressure system will permit suction to bring the water back into the system.

Harry,

Running with a cap that was not a perfect seal, how can this affect water temperature?

Francis
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Vincent



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 955
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francis wrote:
Guys,

I just took Alvira up to see Arthur this afternoon. Up 15 kms and when I got there, the water temperature was at 101.

We looked inside the engine bay and noticed the second fan did not turn on. We rewired it with the first fan to have both run full time.

I went back down home a few minutes ago and with both fans and driving down 200 meters over 15 kms the temperature was at 104...

Any advice like get a cleaner for the inside of the radiator and flush the coolant?

Any thing else I can do? otherwise, I will have to leave Alvira home this year.

Francis


I had a similar problem in Lux 2 years ago. Check the thermostat and put it out. Make then a test drive.
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JohanB



Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Francis, I think it is more consequential than a direct effect. The challenge is to keep the cooling system completely full at all times. The standard setup is sensitive to the sealing qualities of the pressure cap on the thermostat pot and the airtightness of the hose between the pot and overflow tank. Air easily leaks during the cool down phase if not all seals perfectly when the system should suck the coolant back from the expansion reservoir. As a result pushing out coolant and sucking air back in leading to a partially filled system that in turn makes the engine run hotter.
Modern cars all have the pressure cap on the expansion tank. Aston Martin changed its mind on this topic back and forth it seems. DBS V8s had the pressure cap on the overflow tank, later carburettor V8s had it on the thermostat pot. If I recall well from the Virage onwards it is back to the pressure cap on the expansion tank. Keeping the expansion reservoir pressurised means that cooling fluid will be pushed back in the engine when cooling down instead of relaying on the vacuum created by the shrinking coolant volume inside the engine.
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Francis



Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 571
Location: Marly Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody knows what exact Thermostat model I need?
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Francis



Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 571
Location: Marly Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just took the expansion vase that holds the thermostat and noticed that the copper pipe that connects to it and to a hose going to the overflow container is un-welded... I guess that if I can't get pressure in the water system and I keep on loosing water, this will be one of the issues.

I will have it welded tomorrow morning. One more small fix to get the water temperature under control. I also removed the thermostat and will not replace it for now. I don't drive Alvira in winter, so I will not need heating inside the car!

Francis
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JohanB



Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can test the thermostat quite simple. Take (or ask for) a cooking pot, fill it with water and suspend the thermostat into the water with a piece of iron or copper wire. Put it on the stove, monitor the temperature with a thermometer that can handle 100C or use an infrared device. Once you reach approx 74C (assuming it is a standard thermostat, often the opening temperature is stamped into the unit) you should see the valve opening and continue to open as the temperature increases. Don't know at which point it will be completely open but would guess at around 90C or so. Key point is that it opens to the maximum extend and not gets stuck halfway. Turning the heat off should see it starting to close as the temperature drops and be fully closed at around 74C again.
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Keith



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Leigh-on-Sea, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again we have had a terrific Lagonda Festival with lots of interesting things to see & do along with some great drives through a lovely area of Belgium.

Val & I would like to send our very special thanks to this year's Super Stars, Dimitri & Johan, for all of their hard work in arranging the event for us all.
Thank's guys, you did us all proud.

We also would like to thank their back up team, Fabienne, Caroline, Naomi and her friend, for their help in looking after us.

And, of course, thank you to everyone else for being so much fun to be with. Val & I are privileged to know each & everyone of you.

Roll on Lagonda Festival 2017 in Germany where I sincerely hope that our absent friends this year will be able to attend.
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Keith



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Leigh-on-Sea, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naomi's friend: Imane. Thank you both.

How on earth you kept popping up in all those different places with your refreshment table was almost magical.
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Lagondanet
Administrator


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 2706
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a wonderful meeting!

Thank you Dimitri & Johan for organising it.....and thank you to your team: Fabienne, Manu, Caroline, Naomi and Imane for all of their hard work.

Nicole and I enjoyed the event immensely! It was hard to come home! The cars, the venue, the scenery, the kayaking, the dancing......there were many highlights.

But most of all we enjoyed the company of our Lagonda friends old and new and long may that continue.

I think this was the final tally (correct me if I am wrong).


13049 Series 2 Roger & Nicole Ivett UK
13063 Series 2 Martin Roehm & Sergej Vitsyn, Germany
13207 Series 2 Francis de Leeuw Switzerland (Alvira)
13215 Series 2 Siem & Truida De Jong Netherlands (Smurf Lagonda)
13246 Series 2 Thomas & Heike Drechsler and Louisa Germany
13289 Series 2 Gerald Accola & Manfred Christen Switzerland
13302 Series 2 Keith Cornman & Valerie Pearce UK
13330 Series 2 Dimitri Labis & Caroline Janes, UK
13359 Series 2 Fabienne Demarcin & photographer Manu, Belgium
13380 Series 2 David Marks & Sue Hartley UK
13414 Series 3 Harry Kielstra and Margie Vrije Netherlands
13476 Series 3 Johan Hamid, Belgium
13484 Series 3 Ben & Rhea Kroon, Holland
13471 Series 3 Michael, Gina & Arthur von Aretin Germany
13515 Series 3 Olivier Maingard Luxembourg
13619 Series 4 Michel Steil, Shirely Cheung, Antonella and Aston, Luxembourg
13622 Series 4 Jane Weitzmann & Spike Hughes UK

Jean Claude & Noella Dufetrelle France owners of 13195
Vincent Ameye & Francoise Vanderhaegen Belgium owners of 13295
Rodney, John & Jack Howell USA owner of 13365
Robert Marks UK owner of 13397
Johan Balijon Netherlands owner of 13456
David & Irene Willougby UK owners of 13620
Francois Robin & Sandra Dufetrelle France

Finally let's see some pictures. Post or send them.

King Roger I

(ps. I may abdicate before the next meeting)
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Keith



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Leigh-on-Sea, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vive la République !
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